Pod Peak, Descript, True Crime, Track Club, and Full-Time Content Creation: A Catch Up With Evan Phillips

[00:00:00] My 18-year-old daughter who's in college right now, she can't stand when I say this, but I am a content creator. That is how I make a living. I'm a content creator. And she's like, Dad, don't call yourself that.

[00:00:24] What up potty people and welcome back to Clipped. As always, I'm Eric, your host and Clipped brings you the tips, resources, and people to help you crush your content goals. I've got a fun one today. I'm speaking with my buddy Evan Phillips.

[00:00:37] He was on the podcast about two years ago. He's the founder of Pod Peak Studios up in Alaska. He runs a podcast production house up there working with all types of clients, specifically like wilderness, mountain climbing, those type of clients.

[00:00:55] But the reason we're chatting is we're just catching up on how his role in the industry has changed, some new tools that he's using for the production of the shows that he works on.

[00:01:05] He does a lot of narrative stuff that's like a lot more involved than just editing an interview show.

[00:01:10] So we talk about that. We talk about AI. We talk about his other endeavors as a creator outside of his production company.

[00:01:19] He's officially a monetized content creator on YouTube. He's been slugging away at YouTube since 2016 with multiple different channel ideas.

[00:01:29] And finally, one has taken off. It's called Northern Crimes, and it's about some true crime stories that have happened in the Pacific Northwest of the US.

[00:01:39] I'm going to link to his channel. Highly recommend you check that out. Well produced videos that a lot of work go into. If you're a true crime fan, I think you'll get some enjoyment out of this.

[00:01:49] And I think if you're a content creator, podcaster, YouTuber, you're going to want to hear about his role in the industry, what he does, things that are working for him, things that aren't working for him.

[00:02:00] And honestly, at the end of the day, this was a fun catch up. And we got to chat. Always love chatting with my podcasting pals.

[00:02:08] And he's up in Alaska, which I find super interesting and super different. So I know you'll enjoy. But before we get into it, got to give a shout out to Riverside. They sponsor this podcast.

[00:02:18] If you're looking to ease and speed up your podcast production, highly recommend Riverside. You can record there. You can edit there. They've got a bunch of different AI tools to write your show notes, your transcripts, and to even help you create short form vertical videos with AI with just a click of a button.

[00:02:37] Head on over to Riverside.fm, enter promo code CLIPT, the name of this show, and you'll get 20% off. Now, Evan Phillips, founder of PodPeak and the YouTube channel Northern Crimes, let's get into it.

[00:03:04] Evan, welcome to the show.

[00:03:05] Good to see you, Eric.

[00:03:07] Yeah, man. We haven't spoken in a while. I know we message a little bit here and there and talk on the socials a little bit.

[00:03:14] But I just wanted to check in and talk to you about what you've been up to, how you've seen things change.

[00:03:21] Because, man, it seems like everything in podcasting changes quickly.

[00:03:24] So tell us about what you've been up to project-wise and what you're working on.

[00:03:30] Yeah. Well, just to clarify, you and I messaging on socials is really us sending each other memes.

[00:03:38] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I try not to take social too seriously. I do try to post actual content about podcasting, but I find it tough. I kind of just want to screw around on there.

[00:03:53] Well, yeah. I mean, when you're buddies, too, it's like you can do your professional posts and then I'll see you like a little meme or something like, oh, I definitely am sending this one to Eric in the private chat.

[00:04:06] Yeah, man. I've struggled with that with social. I know some people crush it and it actually does help them get leads for their work and help grow their brand and stuff.

[00:04:18] But I haven't really been able to do that. And part of it is because obviously I'm not as dedicated. It all falls on me, but it's just like I don't know. I don't know how to do it really.

[00:04:31] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got to tell you, I'm not really into social media that much either. I mean, I'm on it. I'm checking it every day.

[00:04:43] Sure.

[00:04:43] I mean, you're really active on LinkedIn.

[00:04:47] I love LinkedIn is one of my favorites. I don't know why. I guess I know why because it seems like I get the most organic engagement and people liking and people commenting.

[00:05:01] Whereas like on Instagram, like I'll put time and I'll actually like cut like a short video of something I think is like good, like something I think that people would like and learn from.

[00:05:11] But then it's like doesn't really go anywhere. Like, I don't know. I don't know. So that's why I like LinkedIn.

[00:05:17] Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I like we're living in a world of just like ever shortening like, you know, attention spans.

[00:05:27] And so I think I don't know, man, I feel like Instagram and all that stuff. It's like people are really only interested in just like really quick hit stuff.

[00:05:36] Yeah. And so I don't know the yeah, I don't know. It's a challenge. I'm not really trying too hard on Instagram or anything like I just kind of use it as a tool to kind of just just let people know that I'm still there doing stuff.

[00:05:53] I'm mostly just sharing about projects I do.

[00:05:55] Yeah, that's kind of me is like all I'd kind of do it just to honestly stay relevant, I guess, to some extent. But but um, yeah, unless you already have like a big brand or, or somebody of like influence. Yeah, it seems like people just want those quick hits.

[00:06:13] I guess those bigger accounts. And I guess people actually watch like the full reel, but it just seems like yeah, people are in the mood to just like swipe, swipe, swipe, get that quick little break and then and then get back to it.

[00:06:25] Well, I mean, you do have a you do have a I mean, you have a way bigger Instagram than I do. At least my pod peak, you know, my my podcast business channel, like you have a way bigger Instagram than I do.

[00:06:37] Dude, there was a time I want to this was maybe like 2018. Where like I was posting shit and it was actually like growing and I was like getting followers. And I was like, Oh, this is great. Like, it's just kind of like working. And then one day it just kind of like stopped.

[00:06:52] So I don't know. But I think people on Instagram are just doing reels, man. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what I do.

[00:07:02] Yeah. Do you are you seeing with your clients? And I know you handle more of like the the production side, but are they like for the shows that they work on? Are they working with someone to like boost social or is there like a marketing person that yet?

[00:07:18] Yeah. So, I mean, I work with, you know, a varied group of clients, probably like you do. Like I work with some clients that are essentially bigger businesses, entities that have resources to have a team.

[00:07:31] They basically have money all the way down to one person shows.

[00:07:35] Sure.

[00:07:36] They're just kind of like us. They kind of do everything on their own. So, for example, the podcast I work on, Climbing Gold with Alex Honnold, the company that they're called Duck Tape Then Beer.

[00:07:52] And so they're essentially a media company. They do a couple of different podcasts.

[00:07:56] There's a team. So they work with someone to help them do their social media.

[00:08:01] They've got a person exclusively just working on their YouTube content.

[00:08:06] So, yeah, like they've got someone working on the social media.

[00:08:10] Same with, you know, I work a little bit with the Anchorage Daily News here in Anchorage.

[00:08:16] Obviously, they've got social media people that do all their social media stuff.

[00:08:21] And they've got, you know, big social media followings, you know, tens to hundreds of thousands of followers.

[00:08:29] And then I work with other clients who have, you know, anywhere between a hundred and ten thousand followers on Instagram.

[00:08:39] So it's kind of just all over the place.

[00:08:41] Yeah. And it's hard with a podcast, too, to translate that content to Instagram or TikTok.

[00:08:48] Yeah. I mean, I know you can, if it's a video podcast, cut the clips.

[00:08:51] But it's hard, I feel like, to translate that.

[00:08:55] But speaking of that, of climbing gold and working with the Alaskan Anchorage Daily News.

[00:09:03] Yeah.

[00:09:03] I remember last time we talked, you said that that's kind of like your niche and your bread and butter.

[00:09:07] But like you would maybe, and it's been great because that's how you make your money and make a living.

[00:09:12] But you were maybe looking to expand into like other types of podcasts where it's not so much like outdoors focused.

[00:09:20] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:09:21] Is that still a goal?

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:26] And yeah, that's kind of just the niche I'm in.

[00:09:30] Yeah.

[00:09:30] And it's good.

[00:09:31] I think it's okay to, yes, it can get monotonous, always editing that kind of stuff.

[00:09:35] But it's good to find your lane and then try.

[00:09:38] I'm all for like staying in your lane.

[00:09:40] Yes, we all have ideas of other stuff we want to work on.

[00:09:43] But like if it's working, it's working, you know?

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:48] Yeah.

[00:09:48] Yeah.

[00:09:48] Yeah, so I'm really into, I mean, the big shift for me is that I'm really into becoming just like a better storyteller and like script writer.

[00:09:58] And so, you know, rather than doing like interview style podcasts, which is kind of what I started out doing,

[00:10:05] I guess my interest is more moving into like bigger production, you know, narrative style series podcasts that are like have elements of like investigative journalism, true crime.

[00:10:19] Like I love that stuff.

[00:10:21] So, and we've done some like bigger productions, like series on climbing gold, which has been amazing.

[00:10:30] I mean, I've learned a ton from working with that team.

[00:10:32] Um, so I think that's the transition is more as like, I'm just, I'm really into narrative style storytelling.

[00:10:40] And that's something kind of creatively, personally, and professionally that I've been working towards getting better at over the last few years.

[00:10:50] Yeah.

[00:10:51] And that's probably more, you get to like use your creative juices more in like sound design.

[00:10:56] I'm sure there's a lot of cool stuff you could do.

[00:10:58] Cause to be honest, I largely actually exclusively now work on the interview stuff, um, you know, and, and that's great and everything.

[00:11:06] But, uh, yeah, I can imagine it'd be fun to like sink your teeth into actual, like a creative project where you're, you're telling a story and getting to, to mix.

[00:11:15] And yeah, it's a lot.

[00:11:16] I mean, it's a lot of work.

[00:11:18] You've worked on big projects like that.

[00:11:19] It's a lot of work.

[00:11:20] Oh yeah.

[00:11:21] Yeah.

[00:11:21] People don't realize.

[00:11:23] No, no, you've got, you know, you'll, you might have like 10 different interviews that you've done, you know, and all of that stuff needs to be organized and transcripted.

[00:11:32] And then you have to create like assemblies out of all that stuff and storylines and then do narration.

[00:11:37] And I mean, it's, yeah, it's a lot.

[00:11:41] Do you, uh, I know you do a lot of like, you know, the post stuff, but are you, do you do any like on, on site, like in the field interviews?

[00:11:50] Hmm.

[00:11:52] Is that of interest?

[00:11:55] Uh, well, less, less and less.

[00:11:59] Sure.

[00:12:01] Just, you know, just because there was a time where I was into that stuff, but I'm, I'm honestly kind of more, I would rather other people do that stuff.

[00:12:11] Um, yeah.

[00:12:13] For, for a couple of different reasons, but I, yeah, I mean, I like, I like doing that stuff.

[00:12:18] I mean, do I like it?

[00:12:19] Yeah.

[00:12:20] Um, but I just like, there's only so much you can do in a, you know, I have so many different things going on that it's, I find that I'm just more productive if I'm working primarily in my studio.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:34] Studio rat.

[00:12:35] I like that.

[00:12:37] Especially up in Alaska.

[00:12:38] I can imagine.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:39] One of this time of year.

[00:12:40] Yeah.

[00:12:41] Indoors.

[00:12:42] Right.

[00:12:42] Yeah.

[00:12:42] It's like zero.

[00:12:43] It's zero Fahrenheit out this morning.

[00:12:45] It's really cool.

[00:12:46] I'm like looking out my window and it's like, dude, it looks so cold right now.

[00:12:50] Snow or just frigid?

[00:12:52] Oh no, it's there's, there's, there's a lot of snow.

[00:12:55] Okay.

[00:12:55] And it's just, you can just look how clear the sky is.

[00:12:58] And it's just so you can tell it's really cold.

[00:13:01] That that's what I've heard.

[00:13:03] I haven't lived in a cold climate, but it's actually kind of warmer slightly when it's cloudier.

[00:13:07] Cause it's like an insulation layer.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:10] For sure.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:11] That's a, that's, that's different.

[00:13:14] High pressure, high pressure in the winter, you know, is clear skies and cold weather.

[00:13:18] And then, you know, like low pressure would be like thick clouds coming in and it'll get warmer and soupier.

[00:13:25] So if you have to go to the store, like if you want to go to the market, get groceries or something, it's just, it's like anybody else that would do that.

[00:13:32] It's just, you have to layer it.

[00:13:33] You have to prepare more kind of.

[00:13:35] I'm actually going to the store later today.

[00:13:36] So first, so first I'm going to warm my car up for about 20 minutes, you know?

[00:13:43] Yeah.

[00:13:44] And then I'm going to put my Sorrel winter boots on my big puffy jacket and a hat and frigging go to the store.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:53] Damn.

[00:13:53] That's crazy.

[00:13:54] That's crazy.

[00:13:55] You're late.

[00:13:56] You're living the dream, man.

[00:13:57] Yeah.

[00:13:58] I mean, it's, uh, it's for us, it's actually cold today.

[00:14:01] It's, it gets windy.

[00:14:02] So I moved, I'm still in LA, but I moved like further out, like in the suburbs, the San Fernando Valley, like for, it's kind of, uh, there's no, it's not like, there's nothing cool really happening out here.

[00:14:13] It's good for families.

[00:14:14] Cause it's kind of more like suburban and like chill, but there's no like restaurant.

[00:14:18] I mean, there are, but they're all like chain restaurants and like, there's nothing like the cool side of LA out here.

[00:14:24] Um, but yeah, it gets windy out here.

[00:14:27] I mean, for, it was probably like 40 mile an hour winds last night, which is seems like for me, that's a lot.

[00:14:32] I mean, that's, yeah.

[00:14:33] I mean, that's part of the scary thing with the fires and stuff in that area is that dry wind, man.

[00:14:39] Big time.

[00:14:40] Big time.

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:41] There, uh, there've been a couple, there's one, there was one it's out now, but it burned for a while, maybe like, like 30 miles north of here.

[00:14:49] Um, and it was bad, but, uh, did tell me about the studio.

[00:14:54] So, um, and I want to talk a little bit about that, that production process on like working on bigger stuff with narrative shows.

[00:15:02] Like what, what kind of tools I know you use Reaper, but like, what's the process like, what tools are you using to collaborate with other people and kind of what's the flow of that?

[00:15:14] Well, well, the bit, the big shift this last year, which I know that you wanted to talk about like tools we were using an AI and I know you're familiar with this program, but the big shift primarily, um, working with climbing gold is that we're as a team working in Descript.

[00:15:31] Which, which has been, which is incredible for, for that kind of stuff.

[00:15:35] Oh, for storytelling.

[00:15:36] Yeah.

[00:15:36] And it's all saved in real time.

[00:15:38] Yeah.

[00:15:38] If you're with a team, people can highlight stuff or, or put on marker and.

[00:15:42] Or, or just, you know, like a lot of the, so you talk about the workflow.

[00:15:47] Let me, let me try and like simplify this.

[00:15:50] So like, so the structure would be, so let's say you do all of the interviews with all of the characters who are going to be in the series, in the story.

[00:16:02] All, well, all of their interviews will get uploaded into Descript.

[00:16:05] So they'll each have their own little session that gets transcribed.

[00:16:09] So then, uh, what we'll, what we'll go through is we'll go through each of those interviews and we'll cut what we call selects.

[00:16:17] So you'll basically, so we'll kind of know what story we want to tell going into the, the project.

[00:16:23] So then we'll start, you know, everybody will get assigned to a couple different interviews and we'll cut selects.

[00:16:29] And that means basically going in and finding the best bits of those interviews that will be used in the story.

[00:16:37] So once we've got the selects cut, then we'll move to what we call the assembly, which is starting to kind of create like the, the bones of the script.

[00:16:49] And we'll do that by essentially just pulling those selects from all the interviews and putting those in an assembly and starting to tell the story just with those clips.

[00:17:01] And then, so, you know, so the story will just kind of start coming together that way.

[00:17:07] And then usually what we'll do is there will be a review process, you know, going through the assembly.

[00:17:14] And then we might add some more selects.

[00:17:17] We might cut some, we might, you know, we'll just refine.

[00:17:20] And then we'll go in and cut the narration and put it in there where it needs to go.

[00:17:26] So all of the, I would say the majority of the work gets done scripting on paper, pre-production.

[00:17:34] It's all done in scripting.

[00:17:36] And then it's like the last 25% is done in post-production.

[00:17:42] So that's what I've learned working with these other companies is that in my experience, there's a huge front end of work that goes in in the scripting process and refining the script and getting it better and better.

[00:17:58] And the cool thing with Descript is that you can be listening while you're reading, you know, which is great.

[00:18:05] Um, and then, you know, you can also obviously do editing in audio editing in Descript, which I don't do, but there's another person who does that.

[00:18:17] And then once we kind of get that kind of ready to go, they will export those stems to me and I will mix it and do all of the final post-production in Reaper.

[00:18:29] So I don't know.

[00:18:30] That was a lot of information.

[00:18:31] I love that.

[00:18:32] I, uh, no, that makes total sense to me and probably some of our listeners who use Descript, which I think a lot of them do.

[00:18:41] Uh, no, that makes total sense, man.

[00:18:43] How many people are involved?

[00:18:46] It, it, with the climbing goal, with climbing gold.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:49] Probably like three or four.

[00:18:50] There's just kind of, there's kind of a core team.

[00:18:54] So, you know, so it's like, you know, there's Fitz who's, who's kind of the project manager.

[00:18:59] It's his company.

[00:19:00] So, you know, there's an, another guy who's, he's kind of doing a lot of the basic kind of cleanup stuff.

[00:19:09] And these are for like interview style.

[00:19:11] He'll go and just kind of do like a rough cleanup, export the stems to me, and then I'll do the final polish.

[00:19:19] And then when we're doing like the more serious, the serious stuff, we'll have two or three people going through and cutting selects from all those interviews.

[00:19:27] Cause that's a pretty tedious time consuming process.

[00:19:30] Oh yeah.

[00:19:30] Yeah.

[00:19:31] You got to listen to the interview.

[00:19:32] You got to think of the story.

[00:19:35] Yeah.

[00:19:35] But it's cool because if you take the time to do that on the front end, like you can put comments in there, you can highlight stuff.

[00:19:43] And that way, anybody who's working on the project would be able to go in there and be like, oh yeah, here's the best part.

[00:19:50] Oh, here's where he talks about this.

[00:19:52] And it, you know, so it's a lot of tedious work, but if you put that work in on the front end, it saves you a ton of time on the backend.

[00:19:59] As you know.

[00:20:01] Oh, big time.

[00:20:02] Yeah.

[00:20:02] And I think just like, yeah, you said it's so collaborative with like, yeah, leaving comments or highlighting, um, or even someone say they're like a, like on the team or on any team, that's like a really good storyteller and has like the vision, but they can't really edit like waveforms in like a, in a DAW.

[00:20:19] Um, they can get in there and like delete some like chunks of text or, or like highlighted or whatever.

[00:20:25] Um, and so it, yeah, it makes it, makes it accessible to everyone.

[00:20:29] I use it.

[00:20:30] Um, so I don't do crazy, crazy edits in there, but oftentimes I will like look at it and like just remove like big chunks.

[00:20:39] Right.

[00:20:39] Um, cause I find if you try to get too granular with the editing, um, it gets a little blippy and like jumpy.

[00:20:46] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:47] So, but, but for like, you know, deleting like chunks of a story or, or, um, taking a paragraph and like copy, paste.

[00:20:54] Maybe you want that like to place, uh, later or sooner and you can move it around.

[00:21:00] Um, but yeah, I think it's game changing for that.

[00:21:02] I've been trying to implement these.

[00:21:06] So I work on one show that it's, it's a scripted.

[00:21:10] So the company fully writes out a script word for word and then they hire a voiceover person to read it and record it.

[00:21:17] And then I clean it up, but, um, they all, they just send over like word documents.

[00:21:21] And oftentimes, um, it's, it's a financial company.

[00:21:26] So oftentimes their lawyers, after the first version goes out, they'll, the lawyers will like rewrite something or take something out for like legal purposes.

[00:21:35] Um, and then they'll send me like a new word document.

[00:21:38] That's like the new updated script.

[00:21:40] And sometimes there's a several versions and I'm, I want to get to the point where it's like, we all share a descript thing.

[00:21:46] And if they want to add something, they can leave a note or if they need to like cut something.

[00:21:51] And so it's just like one file that's instead of like, I think, yeah.

[00:21:55] And I think that there's like a, there's a shift happening.

[00:21:57] I think the challenge is that right now everybody's familiar with Google docs.

[00:22:02] So it's like, if you're working with a company, you want to use Google docs or whatever Microsoft's version of that.

[00:22:09] So it's like the challenge with descript with working with people who aren't maybe an audio is like, you kind of have to train them a little and convince them a little like, Hey, this is actually a little bit better.

[00:22:22] It's kind of similar to Google drive, but it's a lot more powerful.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:27] It's a lot more powerful, way more powerful specifically for podcasting.

[00:22:31] Are these show, is that show specifically have heavy sound design?

[00:22:36] Climbing gold.

[00:22:37] Yeah.

[00:22:38] It depends.

[00:22:40] And are you, go on, go on.

[00:22:43] Cause I want to hear about like, yeah, music choices and stuff.

[00:22:45] And if you are doing that or they tell you, give you the track to use.

[00:22:49] It depends.

[00:22:49] Like we do, we do some shows that are, I would call them highly produced.

[00:22:54] And I would say about 75% of the shows we did this last season were really just kind of more what we call round table interview style.

[00:23:03] And they're just kind of fun.

[00:23:05] And of course, like they get edited, like they get edited.

[00:23:08] And then there's like post-production with the narration and stuff like that.

[00:23:13] But there's very minimal music.

[00:23:17] Okay.

[00:23:18] Minimal.

[00:23:19] Minimal.

[00:23:19] But duct tape uses a, you know, there's a bunch of platforms out there for music, obviously, which I've even started to use in my own stuff, especially on YouTube.

[00:23:30] So I have a subscription to Artlist.

[00:23:32] I have a subscription to Epidemic Sound.

[00:23:35] Love Epidemic.

[00:23:36] That's what I use, Epidemic.

[00:23:37] Yeah.

[00:23:37] Yeah.

[00:23:38] And then, so this is kind of a West Coast thing, but have you ever heard of the company Marmoset?

[00:23:45] Marmoset.

[00:23:46] No.

[00:23:46] No.

[00:23:47] Is that like a jackets and clothing?

[00:23:49] No, that's Marmoset.

[00:23:50] No, that's Marmoset.

[00:23:51] Yeah.

[00:23:51] No.

[00:23:51] So Marmoset is based out of Portland, but they're essentially like an indie music licensing company who's gotten pretty big.

[00:23:58] But they've created their own kind of Epidemic Sound type platform.

[00:24:04] It's called Track Club.

[00:24:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:06] But the cool thing about Track Club is that if you, you can go into, you know, Epidemic Sound, like they'll give you a set of stems in a zip folder.

[00:24:18] Right.

[00:24:18] But Track Club, if you want to, if you see a song you like, you can click on it and open a track editor and it'll essentially bring up almost like a DAW type thing, a simplified DAW where you can mix the song before you export it.

[00:24:36] So you can, like, if you don't want vocals, you can mute them.

[00:24:39] If you want to turn the guitars down, you can do that.

[00:24:42] So you can kind of mix it in Track Club, pre-mix it before you export it, which I have found to be pretty incredible.

[00:24:51] Dude, that's rad.

[00:24:52] I've never heard of that.

[00:24:53] That's like a new concept.

[00:24:55] I'll have to link to that.

[00:24:56] I'll check it out and then listeners for you guys, check it out.

[00:24:59] Yeah, I'll send you the link.

[00:25:01] I mean, it's, I would just say that, like, it's a little more advanced in kind of boutique than Epidemic Sound, you know?

[00:25:12] I feel like Epidemic Sound is like a pretty big kind of commercial company.

[00:25:17] They probably don't have super close relationships with their artists.

[00:25:21] Probably not.

[00:25:22] And Marmoset is a little more boutique and I think they probably pay their artists better and they've got, like, crazy high quality stuff.

[00:25:30] I mean, so, yeah.

[00:25:32] I'll have to check that out.

[00:25:33] How do you spell that?

[00:25:34] Or I'll look it up right now.

[00:25:35] Track Club?

[00:25:36] Marmoset?

[00:25:36] Yeah, okay.

[00:25:37] Marmoset Track Club.

[00:25:39] Yeah.

[00:25:39] It's M-A-R-M-O-S-E-T, Marmoset.

[00:25:43] Like Marmot, but Marmoset.

[00:25:45] Okay.

[00:25:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:47] Cool.

[00:25:47] Yeah, we'll link to this.

[00:25:49] That's a, I love just sharing, like, yeah, or having the guests share new tools and stuff for people to check out that are creating content.

[00:25:58] Yeah.

[00:25:59] And you just, like.

[00:26:00] To answer your question, though, so I'm doing less of my own original stuff.

[00:26:05] And just because it's, I mean, listen, at the end of the day, like, you got to work fast.

[00:26:10] And, like.

[00:26:11] Yeah.

[00:26:12] Having the tools, like, Track Club and Epidem, I mean, it's just, it makes it so much faster.

[00:26:18] A lot of times what I'll do is I'll add, like, little elements.

[00:26:22] Like, if I want to do, like, a build into something, like, I'll maybe do that on my own once I've put the music in.

[00:26:29] But those are, like, final tweaks, you know?

[00:26:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:02] Yeah.

[00:27:03] Makes sense.

[00:27:04] Yeah.

[00:27:05] Because then, yeah, it, it, it, you get to flex your creativity, but there's more, like, structure of, like, what they expect.

[00:27:16] Like, did they kind of tell you, like, the vibe and the tone of, like, the music that.

[00:27:21] You know, I've been, I've been working specifically with Duct Tape more.

[00:27:25] I mean, I've been working with them for two and a half years now.

[00:27:28] And I've kind of, I kind of have creative license now.

[00:27:31] Oh, yeah.

[00:27:32] But that's just because they, like, they don't need to tell me what to do, you know?

[00:27:36] Yeah.

[00:27:37] Oh, that's, that's, yeah.

[00:27:39] When you get to that level, I mean, that's the best part.

[00:27:41] That's when you made it as, like, a professional and also kind of as a creative, too, you know?

[00:27:46] Yeah.

[00:27:47] Yeah, I mean, it's just the kind of thing where it's, like, so, you know, Fitz, who's the, essentially, like, the, the, the executive producer of the shows, you know, he just kind of knows my style.

[00:27:59] He knows what I do.

[00:28:00] He's seen two years of my work and been really happy with it.

[00:28:04] But, so, what that's done is that's freed him up from having to feel like he has to micromanage now.

[00:28:10] So, he, he gets to focus on, like, the big picture.

[00:28:13] What story are we trying to tell?

[00:28:16] You know, I feel like maybe we could cut this little part here at the, you know, he's getting to make those big picture, nuance, creative decisions for himself.

[00:28:28] But he doesn't have to worry about, like, the music being not right or something because he just knows I'm going to get it.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] So, it's a good, it's a good relationship.

[00:28:36] Oh, that's a great position to be in, man.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:39] And are these, are you, and I know it's different with narrative, but are you seeing, like, amongst other shows and stuff you work on, are they trying to implement video?

[00:28:50] Or are they, are they just audio-only podcasts?

[00:28:53] Or are you finding, like, more and more people want, like, a video, if it's just an interview, like, a video version of the show?

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:28:59] Or not yet?

[00:29:01] You know, I think that that's, that's interesting.

[00:29:04] Obviously, and I, and I know we're going to chat about YouTube, but obviously, like, you know, YouTube is a, if you can use YouTube, you may as well.

[00:29:16] You know?

[00:29:18] But, but I just feel like for, for interview-style shows, I mean, unless you already have a big audience.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:26] I mean, you know, YouTube, you're probably, you know, you're probably not going to have a lot of success with it.

[00:29:31] That being said, you know, if you look at a lot of these maybe bigger shows, if they have, like, a nice studio where they're recording people in person or, or just the production quality is good.

[00:29:47] Those, you know, I think YouTube is just like anything else.

[00:29:51] I think that, that quality, no matter what, like, you know, you, you'll see all these videos that be like, make $10,000 creating an AI video.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:01] And believe me, I've messed around with all that stuff because it's fun.

[00:30:04] Sure.

[00:30:05] You know, I copied this channel and made $5,000 in a month.

[00:30:10] It's like, yeah, like, there's a very small percentage of people who are going to make that work.

[00:30:17] And you know what?

[00:30:18] Very small, yeah.

[00:30:18] Most of the people who are successful doing that are also very creatively talented.

[00:30:23] And they're probably really good at using Premiere Pro and some other stuff and doing really good editing.

[00:30:31] I just think that YouTube's like everything else.

[00:30:34] I think quality is always going to rise to the top.

[00:30:37] And so, yeah, I guess that's my thought on YouTube.

[00:30:42] Yeah.

[00:30:43] I, so I have a couple of thoughts.

[00:30:45] It's, yeah, like, I largely consume audio podcasts.

[00:30:49] I mean, occasionally I'll put on like Theo Vaughn or like a YouTube version of the show.

[00:30:58] But I have friends that like, they basically only consume podcasts via YouTube, which is kind of weird to me.

[00:31:06] I mean, I get it, but I love the beauty of like going on a walk, like walking my dog listening to the show.

[00:31:12] Like for me to be glued to the screen even more often, I'm like, like what?

[00:31:18] I get it.

[00:31:19] But that's me.

[00:31:20] True.

[00:31:20] True.

[00:31:21] That's a good point.

[00:31:22] That's a good point.

[00:31:22] Like, I, like, let me give you an example.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:26] My 80-year-old dad in the last couple of years has become addicted to YouTube.

[00:31:31] That's all he does is watches YouTube 12 hours a day.

[00:31:36] Yeah.

[00:31:36] And you know what?

[00:31:37] There are millions of people out there doing the same thing.

[00:31:41] Yeah.

[00:31:41] That's kind of profound actually that you said, yeah, that's just, that's me.

[00:31:45] And I guess you're right.

[00:31:46] I don't know why I'm fighting that.

[00:31:49] But all that to say is that like, like you said, yes, if you can be on YouTube, why not?

[00:31:54] Like I'll put this on YouTube.

[00:31:55] Will it crush it?

[00:31:57] I don't know.

[00:31:57] It'll get some views.

[00:31:58] You know, it's not going to break the bank or anything.

[00:32:01] But yeah, more and more of my clients, they haven't pulled the trigger, but they, it's

[00:32:08] more of this thing, I guess, that bugs me is that they think they need to be on YouTube.

[00:32:13] Like they have to be.

[00:32:14] And it's like, you don't have to be, but it's like, should you?

[00:32:18] Yeah, I guess you should.

[00:32:20] Why not?

[00:32:20] If it's available to you.

[00:32:22] So, um, I don't know.

[00:32:24] It's just a weird, it's kind of a weird thing.

[00:32:27] Um, yeah.

[00:32:28] And I guess younger people, I mean, I'm, I'm 39, but I guess, you know, people in their

[00:32:32] twenties and younger, like they can probably consume podcasts all via YouTube as well.

[00:32:38] Um, I watch more dumb videos on YouTube than podcasts, but I still consume it.

[00:32:45] Just not as much for podcasts.

[00:32:46] I don't know, man.

[00:32:47] I, I, I would, I would wager that there are, uh, there is a big.

[00:32:52] Chunk of people that spend an hour or two a day watching stuff like Joe Rogan, you know,

[00:32:58] watching interviews, watching Lex Friedman, uh, you know, watching shows like that, you

[00:33:04] know, where people are doing like long form interviews.

[00:33:07] I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll watch stuff like that.

[00:33:09] I won't watch the whole thing, but I'll watch 20 minutes of it.

[00:33:12] Sure.

[00:33:12] I mean, if you can, you know, and it's like, if you can capture someone for 20 minutes

[00:33:16] on YouTube, that's pretty darn good.

[00:33:19] Yeah, no, you're right.

[00:33:21] And I love YouTube as just for podcasting, I guess I, maybe I'm bitter.

[00:33:25] Cause I'm not a great video editor.

[00:33:27] Well, I was, I just want to do audio.

[00:33:30] No, no, no.

[00:33:31] But I was going to say like, you've, um, one of the things I've noticed is that like you

[00:33:35] in the last year, if you talk about 2024, you really like stepped up your studio game.

[00:33:41] Like you've got a really nice little studio.

[00:33:43] I can tell like your camera's good.

[00:33:45] You got that cool on air pin behind you.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:49] And, and just doing that is significant.

[00:33:52] I mean, like your videos look great.

[00:33:57] Thanks, man.

[00:33:57] I appreciate that.

[00:33:59] Um, yeah, I, I, and I, I have been putting a lot more effort into YouTube, um, just for,

[00:34:06] for, uh, I mean, it's the second largest search engine and everybody's there.

[00:34:10] And so, uh, I do, I do want to grow my YouTube and I, you know, I'm just, it's just tough.

[00:34:15] I guess I've just been a little discouraged.

[00:34:17] It's tough, dude.

[00:34:18] It's, it's, it's, it's incredibly tough.

[00:34:21] Um, do you, you want to chat a little bit about YouTube?

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:27] Yeah.

[00:34:27] Tell me about your experience.

[00:34:28] Cause I know you're, you, you've got a couple channels.

[00:34:30] Tell us about all those and you're monetized as well.

[00:34:34] Kind of how that works.

[00:34:35] So I have, have experimented with YouTube and been using, doing YouTube since about 2016.

[00:34:44] I think that was maybe when I did my first kind of video where I was doing like kind

[00:34:50] of audio type tutorials on my pod peak channel and just kind of, you know, over the years,

[00:34:58] you know, about two or three years ago, I start, I got, I decided to get way more into

[00:35:03] it.

[00:35:04] Like I wanted to become, wanted to teach myself how to be a video editor.

[00:35:08] I just wanted to have that tool set.

[00:35:10] So I started recording more pod peak audio, mostly Reaper focused tutorials do well on

[00:35:18] educational stuff does really well on YouTube.

[00:35:20] Well, that's how I kind of built my channel.

[00:35:22] But then about two and a half years ago, I was like, well, I want to, I want to like start

[00:35:27] experimenting with doing other stuff.

[00:35:29] So I've probably created in the last five years, probably 12 or 13 different channels

[00:35:37] where I was just trying different things.

[00:35:39] Wow.

[00:35:40] Some of them, I put a lot of work into a couple of those channels have over a thousand subscribers,

[00:35:48] but they're not monetized yet.

[00:35:50] But, but I just, I ended up closing those channels down.

[00:35:55] I mean, I put, I mean, I couldn't even tell you how many hours I put into those channels

[00:36:01] and I decided to close them down because this last year I finally have a channel that kind

[00:36:08] of blew up on YouTube.

[00:36:09] And it's a, it's a faceless true crime documentary style channel.

[00:36:17] The faceless thing.

[00:36:18] I see people on YouTube make money with a faceless channel.

[00:36:22] Not that that was your goal, but the faceless thing is a niche, right?

[00:36:26] Well, yeah.

[00:36:28] And, and just to be clear, like this isn't like an AI faceless channel.

[00:36:32] This is like me writing scripts, doing like high-end documentary style production, you

[00:36:41] know, music post-production.

[00:36:43] I'm essentially making like mini documentaries that are like 15 to 30 minutes long.

[00:36:48] Each one takes, you know, like 40 hours of work.

[00:36:52] So, but I did that.

[00:36:55] I worked on that channel for about two years, got it monetized.

[00:36:59] All last year I made, I made like maybe 80 or 90 bucks last year.

[00:37:04] And then I took like a three or four month break because like you, I was feeling demoralized.

[00:37:09] Yeah.

[00:37:10] And then I just kind of thought about, well, I'm just going to refine a couple things.

[00:37:14] I'm going to switch a few things up.

[00:37:15] And I made two or three more videos.

[00:37:17] And my third video went viral and my channel, it looked like a crypto chart.

[00:37:23] I mean, it went like a, like a parabolic crypto chart.

[00:37:27] It went like this.

[00:37:29] And so I went, I went from making no money to making real money in a month.

[00:37:36] Really?

[00:37:37] After, but after five years of work.

[00:37:42] I love that.

[00:37:43] One, that's fucking awesome, dude.

[00:37:45] So congrats.

[00:37:46] I'm pumped for you that that took off too.

[00:37:49] Just for people listening, like, yeah, it doesn't happen overnight.

[00:37:52] Dude, it takes a lot of work and you have to be, you have to be in the work and passionate

[00:37:57] and put like doing your best because you want to do your best.

[00:38:02] And, and, you know, not just, not just going into it with the mindset of like, oh, I'm going

[00:38:06] to make money.

[00:38:07] And you have to be like in it, like you have to want to keep doing it.

[00:38:11] You know what I mean?

[00:38:11] So that's a word for people listening.

[00:38:13] And that's also badass, dude.

[00:38:16] Like good for you.

[00:38:17] And so are you, are you still doing new episodes or are you letting those ride?

[00:38:21] No, no, no, no.

[00:38:22] I've, I've ascent because, because I've essentially turned it into like a real income stream.

[00:38:29] I've, I've incorporated it.

[00:38:31] I'm essentially doing YouTube full time.

[00:38:34] No way.

[00:38:35] I built it into my work schedule.

[00:38:39] So every day I just clock in like I'm doing a job.

[00:38:42] I work on my YouTube stuff.

[00:38:45] Oh, dude, I'm so happy for you.

[00:38:46] That's, that's, that's the dream in a way, like to be able to make money as a creator.

[00:38:51] But like you said, it's not glamorous.

[00:38:53] It's a lot of work.

[00:38:55] No, no.

[00:38:56] I'm, I'm essentially working, you know, on average, I would say 40, sometimes 60 hours

[00:39:05] a week.

[00:39:06] And I'm not, I'm not exaggerating.

[00:39:09] Like I work hard.

[00:39:10] No way.

[00:39:11] I'll have to check it out.

[00:39:13] Can you shout the channel name out?

[00:39:15] Yeah.

[00:39:15] It's called Northern Crimes.

[00:39:17] Northern Crimes.

[00:39:18] I've been, I've been pretty low key about it.

[00:39:20] So I remember you were telling me you were kind of low key.

[00:39:23] This rings a bell, I think.

[00:39:25] Yeah.

[00:39:26] Well, and so it, you know, the true crime genre is huge.

[00:39:30] Obviously people love it.

[00:39:33] Oh yeah.

[00:39:34] 118 view.

[00:39:35] Is the Oregon campground murders?

[00:39:37] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Yeah.

[00:39:38] A hundred something thousand, 112,000, 104,000.

[00:39:42] And the thing is, is these are long form videos.

[00:39:45] So, you know, people like the average view duration for my videos is like 10 to 12 minutes.

[00:39:51] Wow.

[00:39:52] So, um, yeah, so I'm making, you know, I'm making real money just off ad revenue.

[00:39:58] Yeah.

[00:39:59] Dude, that's fucking awesome.

[00:40:01] So you got that going on.

[00:40:03] Um, you've got like the podcast clients that you work with, you've got your pod peak channel,

[00:40:09] which I've seen the recent tutorial about that channel strip.

[00:40:12] And it looks like you kind of picked that back up, which that's all really well produced as well.

[00:40:17] So you're like, yeah, you're like a full-time creator slash like podcast producer.

[00:40:24] It's, it's, uh, isn't it wild?

[00:40:26] Like to where you are now thinking, um, like you and me both, like however many years ago,

[00:40:31] trying to make money as like a studio, like engineer recording like musicians and stuff.

[00:40:37] It's, it's so, it's so weird how like those skills and the way like the world changed with

[00:40:43] YouTube came about and podcasting and then able to like use those skills, but pivoted it into like

[00:40:48] a current business that, that actually works kind of, you know, cause that, that world is,

[00:40:54] is tough. Yeah. Well, the, well, the funny thing is in like my 18 year old daughter,

[00:41:00] who's in college right now, she can't stand when I say this, but I am a content creator.

[00:41:06] That is how I make a living. I'm a content creator. And she's like, dad, don't call yourself that.

[00:41:12] I'm like, but that's what I am. That's what you are. Yeah. I mean, I make music. I make podcasts

[00:41:18] that make YouTube videos. I like, that's what I am. I'm a content creator. Dude, you were, you,

[00:41:23] you, you work your ass off, man. That's yeah, that that's impressive and, and, and good for

[00:41:29] you, man. I mean, it, it sometimes it, well, not sometimes it always takes a while and all

[00:41:34] these, you know, whatever 20 year, what is it? 10 year overnight success or 20 year overnight

[00:41:38] success. Um, so dude, that's rad. What did I, I wanted to ask you, uh, um, I wasn't gonna,

[00:41:47] anyway. Yeah, dude. So, so that's, so you've got a lot on your plate, man. You're, are you working

[00:41:53] like the most you've ever worked before in terms of just hours? No, I'm actually, it's funny, man.

[00:41:58] Like I'm actually here, here's the deal. It's like you're 39 and this is something that I have to

[00:42:05] like remind myself. You're 39. You've got two young kids. That is a completely different world

[00:42:12] than I'm living in. My daughter just started her first year of college. Oh, you're free. Yeah.

[00:42:17] Well, yeah. So that's the thing. Like, and I've always been a little bit of a stubborn that way,

[00:42:23] stubborn that way, even as she, as she grew up, even though I've been very involved in her life

[00:42:27] and we're very close. I mean, you know, you know, I live alone. Like I'm in a, I have a girlfriend,

[00:42:34] but she actually doesn't live in Alaska. Like I've got a lot of time, dude, to, to just

[00:42:40] immerse myself in creativity. And so I've, I've just kind of constructed the lifestyle that I want.

[00:42:47] Yeah. Yeah. You really have. Yeah. I can't wait. Like I kind of dream about

[00:42:51] the days of like freedom where I'm not waking up at like five in the morning.

[00:42:55] But I mean, I wanted to bring that up because like, I know you're interested in YouTube and I

[00:43:00] know that like, if you had like more time and, you know, and energy, you'd probably be like, you,

[00:43:06] you know, I'm sure you and I could have a great conversation about, you know, I'm sure I could

[00:43:12] help you like figure out YouTube stuff that you wanted to do, but it's like, that takes so much

[00:43:18] time. And like, you're a frigging busy dad. Like you've got, you know, your kids are your priority

[00:43:24] right now and they have to be.

[00:43:25] Yeah. They have to be. And it's, it's a one thing it's like, yeah, that the actual time,

[00:43:30] like in the day, but it's also too, I think the, like the mental space to create, it's like,

[00:43:37] you almost kind of like need that break. Cause then it turns on like another part of your brain

[00:43:41] where you can like go be creative, where I feel like even though I'm like doing podcasts and

[00:43:47] dabbling in YouTube, I feel like it doesn't really like feel creative. And finally I, I play guitar,

[00:43:54] but like, I feel there was like a, like the last, like even through COVID last like four or five years,

[00:43:59] I feel like I was like hardly playing or not inspired to play. And that's, that's starting

[00:44:03] to come back a little bit now, but, but I do miss it. I do miss like having that, that, uh, open,

[00:44:10] open time to be creative, but it's cool. Cause you're doing the creative thing, but also like

[00:44:14] making money from it, which it, you know, is the dream really.

[00:44:19] Yeah. But again, I have two comments. Well, one, like you, you built yourself a studio. Cause I

[00:44:25] remember when we were talking two years ago, you were sharing a studio space with

[00:44:29] your daughter's bedroom. That's right. Yeah. How amazing is it just to have your own separate

[00:44:34] space now? Oh dude, it's, it's great. So actually it kind of happened cause we moved and I I'm in

[00:44:42] the garage, but what was rad and this kind of just happened coincidentally is the previous owner

[00:44:47] is we, we bought a house. So the previous owner of this house, he had his office in the garage. And so

[00:44:53] it has AC like and heat pumped into it. Um, and it's like, it's pretty well done. Um, and that just

[00:45:00] kind of happened. We weren't really looking for that, but, um, so we got really lucky in that sense.

[00:45:05] And then I was able to do some paint and got a couple of rugs and stuff. And that, that's helped

[00:45:11] a lot. It sounds really good. Like you're like your audio that I'm hearing, right. It sounds great.

[00:45:15] You sound like you're in a, in a, in a, in a studio. Yeah. I've got some, some, uh, panels up

[00:45:23] and the rugs and I've got a, like a gobo divider thing over here. So, well, thank you for that. No,

[00:45:29] I appreciate, I appreciate you noticing that. Well, well, well, I know, I mean, I really understand,

[00:45:34] you know, because so I live, I live alone. I mean, my daughter has a room here. I have a three bedroom

[00:45:39] place. So I've got, you know, my living room kitchen, I've got a room where I sleep. My daughter

[00:45:46] has a room over here, but then I've got a dedicated studio. And so like when I come in here every

[00:45:52] morning to work, I feel inspired because it's my studio. It's set up just the way I want it.

[00:45:59] It's my little space and just having a separate studio space from your life.

[00:46:07] I mean, I would just imagine like this has been a game changer.

[00:46:10] It has because it's, it's not only the physical space. Cause I'm in the garage.

[00:46:15] Um, if I would have done it in one of the bedrooms, it would have been cool. But then I would have heard

[00:46:20] the kids all day and they'd be knocking on the door. So it's like the physical separation.

[00:46:24] And then yeah, having like the vibe, the way you want it, it's like the mental you walk in,

[00:46:29] it's like, Oh, this is, this is my space. Yeah. I tell people that it's, you know,

[00:46:33] like new creators or new podcasters, they, they probably don't have the luxury or the resources

[00:46:39] yet to like do it. But it really, I almost want to tell people to invest up at least like invest in

[00:46:45] like a bookshelf or something that like kind of looks good on camera, anything, a lamp or something.

[00:46:51] And then, um, yeah, even if you have to be in the corner of your bedroom, you could,

[00:46:56] you could do it right for like a cheap budget. Yeah. These, well, these are things that you learn

[00:47:02] over time. I mean, you and I have both kind of learned the importance of that stuff over time

[00:47:08] by doing it. Yeah. And, and are you, um, tell us about your pod peak channel, like, you know,

[00:47:16] yeah. YouTube channel. Yeah. So, so that channel is monetized. I don't, I hardly make any money on it,

[00:47:24] but what I've realized is that, you know, here's the deal. Like that, that's just become my,

[00:47:31] my fun channel. Like I'm just going to make videos. And I know you saw recently, it was cool.

[00:47:37] Like I, uh, a plugin company reached out to me cause they'd seen one of my videos on pod peak.

[00:47:43] And they're like, Hey, we love your videos. We've noticed that you have used our plugins.

[00:47:48] So I kind of got this partnership going with Sonomus. So that's why I made those recent videos.

[00:47:53] They gave me these plugins that I love and they're like, try these out, do a review. We'll give it to

[00:47:58] you. And, um, you know, you know, I didn't make any money doing it, but I forged a relationship with

[00:48:04] a plugin company that I really like, which is cool. Um, so I'm just doing, you know, and then I made

[00:48:11] a video about my studio desk that I built. I mean, I'm just making videos that are fun for me.

[00:48:18] The, the average retention on my audio channel is like a minute and a half to two minutes.

[00:48:27] The average retention on my true crime long form storytelling channel is 10 minutes plus the same.

[00:48:35] So, so obviously there's a lot more work that goes into that, but the competition,

[00:48:42] that that's another thing I've learned about YouTube is like, um, the, you know, the competition

[00:48:50] in like the music audio production field. It's just so oversaturated.

[00:48:55] Yeah, it is.

[00:48:56] The, the, the, the true crime storytelling documentary genre is saturated, but there's still room to

[00:49:05] like find niches in there, which I've been able to do. Uh, and like for me at the end of the day,

[00:49:12] it's like, I want to make money, you know, I, I cannot afford to make videos that don't make money.

[00:49:20] And so that's, that's just kind of a transition that's happening organically. It's like, I'm kind

[00:49:26] of, I've do, I've done a bunch of different things. You know, some of my channels are starting

[00:49:32] to do better than others. And I'm just naturally focusing more on those channels that are doing

[00:49:37] better. So.

[00:49:38] Yeah. And I think, uh, that what's worked out for you, at least from an outside view is like

[00:49:43] the true crime thing, the barrier to entry is a lot higher, like the amount of work and,

[00:49:49] and time and stuff. You know what I mean? Whereas like the talking about like audio and stuff,

[00:49:55] it's like, yeah, but like to really do true, true crime properly, like you said, it's a ton of,

[00:49:59] of time and resources. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just like anything. I mean, there's a lot of,

[00:50:05] I mean, there's a lot of really low quality, crappy AI true crime channels out there that have

[00:50:10] like 500,000 subscribers. It's like, what? You know? Um, but I just think that, you know,

[00:50:17] the other thing too, is like, you know, every time waves puts out a new plugin or any plugin company

[00:50:23] puts out a new plugin within the first week, there's like a hundred different videos on it.

[00:50:28] I've, you know, it's just like, I tried to compete with that, but one, the time, the turnaround time,

[00:50:34] and then the production value, it's like, yeah, if there's a new microphone, it's like people are

[00:50:38] on it. And, and, and it, you know, I love the videos. I'm like, fuck, that's a good video. Like

[00:50:43] I need that. That's what I have to compete with. No, well, like the video, the videos that you've

[00:50:47] made where you've reviewed stuff have been some of the coolest videos you've made. Oh, thank you.

[00:50:51] Yeah. I love those. Those are awesome videos. I love that stuff, but those take time. I mean,

[00:50:58] you know, and yeah, well, well, as we kind of near home here, um, so tell me about Podpeak,

[00:51:06] like are, you know, you've got the true crime thing. That's part of your income and like Podpeak,

[00:51:11] are you like, is the goal to kind of just continue course or do you have like a grander vision for

[00:51:16] what it could be? Or are you comfortable? Like with, are you good type of thing? Are you looking

[00:51:22] for new clients or? I'm, I'm looking for, I'm at the point in my career where, I mean,

[00:51:31] let's be real. I don't make a ton of money, you know? I mean, I, I make enough money. I do okay.

[00:51:37] And I'm doing better and better, but you know, you and I have talked about this. I mean,

[00:51:44] I'm going to be 50 years old this next year and I've spent all of my life, you know, I don't have

[00:51:51] a college degree. I, you know, for in my twenties, I was just climbing mountains and not making any

[00:51:57] money. And then I was like a full-time musician for 15 years, you know? So when I got done with

[00:52:03] that, I didn't have anything, you know? So it's like, I've, I've had to just grind and grind and

[00:52:09] grind to, to get where I'm at now. And so it's like, finally at 50 years old, it's like, I'm

[00:52:16] getting kind of like, Oh, I've got like a balance. I'm kind of doing what I want to do. You're in a

[00:52:22] good place. Am I looking for new clients? Kind of. I'm looking for clients who are people that I want

[00:52:31] to work with. You know, I I'm in a position where now it's like, if someone reaches out to me and it's

[00:52:37] not the right fit, I'll either just say, Hey, I'm not sure I'm the right fit for you or I'll refer

[00:52:43] them to somebody else. Um, I just want to work on stuff that I'm into, uh, which I realized that's

[00:52:50] maybe that sounds like coming from a place of luxury or privilege, but it's not because I've worked

[00:52:56] really hard to get to that place, but I would rather make less money than work on projects that,

[00:53:04] that just grind my soul down. And so I'm, I'm just trying to just trying to be balanced. You know,

[00:53:12] I'm trying to find balance and not overwork myself. And when I am working really hard, I want to be

[00:53:17] something that I'm really into. If that, if that answers your question.

[00:53:20] No, it does a hundred percent. I I'm kind of more and more getting to that point. I feel like, um,

[00:53:26] you know, like however many years ago, I was like, Oh, I want to rebuild the company to be

[00:53:30] like this big production house and I have like staff engineers and I'm kind of running it,

[00:53:35] but I'm learning that one, I don't think I want to run it and be managing a bunch of people. I don't,

[00:53:40] I don't even know how to do that to be perfectly honest. Um, and two, it's like, yeah, I, I kind of

[00:53:47] just want to work with people that I don't, the content so much doesn't, I don't, I don't care so

[00:53:52] much about what the content is, but it's like, yeah, if I like the people that I work with. So I,

[00:53:58] I work with this one investment company, super, super corporate. I think they're even a fortune

[00:54:02] 500 company, huge, like a, like a Charles Schwab or Morgan Stanley type of thing. But dude, the people

[00:54:09] that I work with there on the marketing team are so cool, so easy to work with, so understanding

[00:54:14] and with like deadlines. And it's like, it's a great gig. And it's like, I want more stuff like

[00:54:21] that. Like where it's like, I like working with the people and I've even had, like you said,

[00:54:26] a couple of people reach out where it's like, I don't think it's a good fit. Um, and, and,

[00:54:31] you know, maybe it would have been if time went on and that relationship developed, but it's,

[00:54:35] and this is going to sound bad, but I can almost kind of get a vibe off, like talking to someone

[00:54:39] on a call, like if I would be, and that's, I don't know if that's bad or if I'm being like

[00:54:44] judgmental, but it's also, I don't think it sounds bad. I think that sounds like experience.

[00:54:49] Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, especially, I mean, you've been doing this longer

[00:54:53] than me, but you kind of get a feel for like what will jive. And yes, I do want to make more money.

[00:54:58] I want, honestly, I want to make a lot more money, but, but I also want to, want to do the stuff I

[00:55:04] want to do. And so I'm kind of in that balance, trying to get into that balance more and more.

[00:55:10] It's, it's tough. And you know, it's, it's an ongoing thing.

[00:55:15] Yeah, it is tough. Yeah. I remember you, when we talked,

[00:55:19] when we talked a year and a half or two years ago, I remember you were telling me that

[00:55:24] you had mentioned like, yeah, I was kind of initially thinking I wanted to do this, but then

[00:55:28] it's like, you realize like now, like with the technology that we have and like, I mean,

[00:55:35] you can create so much from a studio now and like put it out to the world that it's like,

[00:55:42] why would you want to deal with all that overhead? And it's like, even if you have employees

[00:55:46] or people that you work with, you can do it remotely if those people are competent.

[00:55:52] Yeah. You know?

[00:55:53] Yeah. I've got one guy that I, I guess, yeah, he freelances, he freelances for me,

[00:55:59] quote unquote, but he, he has his own thing. But like occasionally when I get like overwhelmed

[00:56:03] or something, be like, Hey, do you have, do you want to edit this? Do you have time? And he'll edit

[00:56:07] it for me. And I kind of liked that relationship. Maybe just having like two or three main people that I

[00:56:12] could rely on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the one thing I can tell you the one, like I could, I'm actually,

[00:56:21] I'm actually just now creating a new YouTube channel. That's going to be long form documentaries

[00:56:30] about like, um, like kind of white collar finance, corporate greed type documentary.

[00:56:40] Yeah. There's a lot of that, which there's a pretty big, uh, there's a pretty big audience for

[00:56:44] stuff like that too. But I'm still, I'm starting to think like, okay, so if I'm doing Northern

[00:56:49] crimes and I, and I, I'm able to monetize that I'm going to have to find someone to work with me

[00:56:54] to do these videos. You know, I'm going to need to find someone who's got like chops as a video editor

[00:57:01] who I can, like, I can record the narration, send them kind of an outline of what to do and be like,

[00:57:07] okay, make this. And, uh, you know, so I might have to do that if I keep going with YouTube, but

[00:57:15] it's, it's really interesting, man. It's like, I can see YouTube becoming my full-time gig and

[00:57:22] pod peak becoming my side hustle. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:28] That, yeah.

[00:57:29] So weird, man. If somebody would ask me like that, like 20 years ago, I'd be like, what?

[00:57:33] Yeah.

[00:57:34] Like what? That doesn't matter. What?

[00:57:36] What do you, what, uh, do you use Premiere or what do you edit in?

[00:57:41] That's another, so we were going to talk about stuff we had used in 2024 and we got kind of

[00:57:46] sidetracked. I'm going to tell you right now, the biggest, biggest game changer for me with,

[00:57:52] with my videos this last year is that I, I switched from primarily using Final Cut Pro

[00:57:59] to using CapCut. Okay. I've heard a lot of good things with CapCut. I've never used it, but

[00:58:04] CapCut is, CapCut is crazy. Is it? Intuitive and like,

[00:58:09] And amazing to use. Like, yeah, for the cut, for the kind of videos that I'm doing that I would say

[00:58:15] it's like high production, but not ultra technical production. Dude, CapCut's like way better

[00:58:23] than Final Cut Pro. And I've invested like thousands of dollars into plugins for Final

[00:58:29] Cut Pro. Like CapCut's way more stable. It doesn't work my computer as hard. It's got all of those

[00:58:36] features that I paid for in Final Cut Pro built into it. Wow. I mean, yeah, dude, CapCut has been

[00:58:43] a game changer and it's nine bucks a month. Dude, I've heard good things. I'll have to check it out

[00:58:47] for like, uh, for just shorts or just anything, but people talk about, you know, what's funny.

[00:58:53] That's another thing. Like you just were talking about CapCut, like genuinely, cause you like it,

[00:58:57] you know, as your channel grows. And maybe in one episode you mentioned that you did it with CapCut

[00:59:03] or, or just, I don't, you know what I mean? It's like that plugin company that reached out to you.

[00:59:06] It's like, soon you'll start getting like, Oh, CapCut. Like we want to sponsor the video, a video,

[00:59:11] or we want to, you know what I mean? That, that, I feel like that stuff tends to come

[00:59:15] with like where you're at, which are you open to that kind of stuff?

[00:59:19] Yeah. Well, I've actually, I've already, I've been approached by companies that want to sponsor

[00:59:25] me and I haven't taken any of the, I haven't agreed to do any of those because I'm just kind of being

[00:59:31] patient and, you know, I'm waiting until it can really pay off. And are you, are you the type

[00:59:37] where like, it would have to be a product that you're super aligned with or what if it's just a

[00:59:43] generic, like Pepsi you wanted to sponsor? Is that, as I get older, I give less of a shit.

[00:59:49] I'm like, you want to give me money? As long as you're not doing anything really shady.

[00:59:54] Yeah. I don't know, man. I just, I'm, yeah, I would say that I'm, I'm more lean to like,

[01:00:01] I kind of need to feel good about any product that I'm going to push. And I just feel like,

[01:00:06] you know, at the end of the day, like your reputation is everything. And it's like,

[01:00:10] like I've worked so hard to be in the position that I'm at. So I'm not going to just, you know,

[01:00:16] cause these companies will reach out to you and they'll be like, Hey, we'll give you $500

[01:00:21] to do this. And it's like, would I like an extra $500 on my videos? Yeah, that'd be great.

[01:00:26] But is it really worth it for me to like potentially give people who are like my, I guess my consumers

[01:00:36] something that's not very great. No, it's not worth it to me. I'd have to get paid a lot more

[01:00:41] than that to do that. You know? Makes sense. So I'm just, yeah, I, I, I'm just, yeah. I mean,

[01:00:49] any, anytime my spidey sense goes up, I'm just like, Nope, not going to do it. That's kind of how

[01:00:56] I make my decisions. I just, I've learned to trust my instincts.

[01:00:59] Trust your instincts. Yeah. And, uh, the opportunities I'm sure will continue to come

[01:01:03] Evan. Uh, it sounds like it's only up from here. So congrats on all your success. And, uh,

[01:01:09] as we wrap up, tell people where they can get in touch with you if they want to watch any of your

[01:01:13] channels or any of the projects you're doing. Yeah. So if you wanted to get in touch with me

[01:01:19] for like podcast audio stuff, just go to podpeak.com or you can reach me at Evan at podpeak.com.

[01:01:25] And then on YouTube, uh, my podpeak channel is just at podpeak. If you want to check out my,

[01:01:31] uh, true crime channel, it's at Northern crimes. Uh, yeah, that's pretty much it.

[01:01:37] I'll link to all that stuff, man, in the description and show notes, but thank you for,

[01:01:40] uh, for chatting with us. You bet, man. It's awesome talking to you.