Mike Wiston CEO of MowPod: Building Communities, Podcast Growth, Leadership and Crushing It As a Dad - Part 2

[00:00:00] I have a wake up call. So if you want to make money with your podcast, you have a business now. Do you don't know the business side of it? Start learning the business side. It's

[00:00:11] not just about producing good content. You need to know... The number one thing people will tell me when I tell them go out and get sponsorships is, are there companies that do that for you? Like no, go freaking pick up the phone or send an email or go

[00:00:24] on LinkedIn and find these companies, find the people, reach out to them, tell them what awesome product you have. You have only a couple hundred or thousand listeners. No problem. You don't need to be a sales professional to do this. You just need to do it.

[00:00:45] Yes, what up, potty people and welcome back to Clipped. As always, I'm Eric, your host and Clip brings you the tips, resources and people to help you become a better content creator. And this week I'm hitting you with part two of my episode with Mike from MowPod.

[00:01:03] Yeah, we continue the conversation. We're talking about networking, growth, entrepreneurship, dad life and more. But before we get into it guys, I don't know how the hell this happened, but I... This show Clipped is currently in the top 50 on Apple podcasts

[00:01:22] in the education category. I woke up last week and it was at like 181, usually the charts it shows on the Apple podcast app, like the top 200 for each category. It was like 181 or

[00:01:34] something and I was blown away by that. Then the next day it went into like the 60s, the 50s. And as of recording this Tuesday, July 30th, it's like hovering between spot 32 and 35.

[00:01:48] I gained a ton of followers from that when I log in. So if you're listening to this and you're one of those people that discovered this show, just want to say thank you. It's

[00:01:56] fucking awesome. I hope that I can continue to bring you excellent content with some of my colleagues, the solo stuff that I'm doing. I'm all about helping you with your content, coming up with strategies to easier produce content, to create better content, the equipment needed to do that,

[00:02:15] how to grow your content via stuff that's worked for me and talking to professionals like Mike in this episode, whether it's organic paid different strategies for all of that. So just want to say thank you and if you found it and you want to leave a review,

[00:02:30] I would appreciate that a lot. It just shows other people that there are people out there that are enjoying the show. And so just want to say thank you again, stoked. It fires me up to

[00:02:42] keep doing this. But in any case here is part two with Mike Wiston, CEO and founder of Mopod. Oh, and I got a shout out Riverside. They sponsor this podcast. Go to riverside.fm,

[00:02:54] take advantage of their AI tools. They can clip your episodes into shorts for social media at the press of a button. And also it's the best place online to record remote high quality 4k video and audio podcast. That's riverside.fm and our promo code clipped

[00:03:13] at checkout and get 20% off. Let's give it a go. Podcasting is kind of like a small world sort of one, I think I'd like to say it's kind of new even though it's been around

[00:03:39] for a long time. But I feel like it's like the last five years is when people really start to from a listeners perspective, like know what a podcast is. And that being said, it seems like everyone I've met, whether it's at conferences in interviews or social media,

[00:03:56] everyone in the podcasting world is really cool actually. I don't know if I've met any assholes really. It seems like everybody wants to help everyone out. And you mentioned promoting punk rock shows and stuff. Yeah, I used to be in a couple punk bands,

[00:04:13] then like a sublime style band for a while. And dude, it's all about like you said, like the scene and like you meet other bands, you open for them and then you open for another

[00:04:25] band and eventually like you grow and then you get people that you think are rad to open for you and you share like the whole thing. You know what I mean? And I think podcasting,

[00:04:35] I try to look at it like that, especially more so lately, like I said, I got to start having these conversation stations and connecting. But I think that DIY like spirit and everyone lifting each other up is awesome. Well, I think the other thing with

[00:04:50] podcasting just for all the independent podcasters are listening to this, you know, just understand what you actually want. You know, there's no difference between 100 downloads for an episode or 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000. There's no difference if you don't

[00:05:04] have a clear path to something like monetization or if you want to ultimately sell it to a network and you know, if you don't have a clear goal, like I need to get to this number because

[00:05:17] I need this kind of listenership regularly because in this kind of engagement because if you don't have that, don't try to pay for growth. You know, just just have fun with it and grow your podcast organically. And that's, you know, that's all it needs to be. It doesn't

[00:05:31] need, you know, thousands of downloads. It just needs, you know, some people listening to it that love what you're doing. And then, and also don't take it personally, like try to understand what's happening. If you see your numbers declining, you know, don't just look at it like,

[00:05:46] you know, I think people are just listening to it less. There's a reason, you know, maybe shorten your episodes, try, try shortening your episodes, try, you know, talking about something else, maybe get rid of the ads that you're putting right in the beginning of

[00:05:58] the freaking episode, you know, like try things and, you know, don't take it personally, you just, you know, you're build it. You're, you're, you're have a podcast because you want people to listen. So build it for them. Don't build, you know, it's not for you.

[00:06:09] I like that. Yeah. And I like trying iterating doing different things. I like to how you said, yeah, figure out your, you're kind of like in my mind right now, I'm like a data guy or

[00:06:22] like, yeah, figure out like why, why do you want to get to X or like, why do you need Y to bring you to Z? Like what, what is the mission? And I think, I think that's helpful for me too.

[00:06:34] I feel like I've been thinking more about that. It's like, well, why do I want to grow? Like what am I trying to achieve? Is it monetization? Is it to drive people to like a ebook or is it

[00:06:43] to whatever it is? So no, that's great advice there. Let me ask you a couple just like industry questions. Like what, like audio versus video first, what do you consume more of when it

[00:06:56] comes to podcasts and or content? And then what do you think of video for podcasts? I am in the probably minority when I say that I don't think video is podcasting. So,

[00:07:09] sorry, I think video is a freaking video. I'm with you on that. Yeah. I feel like I used to have a hard stance on that. And now I've been coming around a little bit to the video. I mean,

[00:07:18] I do release this as video just for YouTube like discoverability, they're owned by Google. But it's interesting. I would love to hear your thoughts, like no wrong opinion. In my opinion, at least the way that I view podcasting, it's audio. It's an audio product

[00:07:37] that you go out and listen to. And if I'm watching a video, that's a video cast or a video. Something. Web video is exactly. It's not a podcast in my opinion. And that's fine. You can

[00:07:46] have both. They're both going to exist. They could be exactly the same content, but I'm either consuming your podcast or I'm consuming your video. But if I'm consuming your video, I'm not consuming your podcast. I'm consuming your video in my opinion.

[00:07:58] That said, I watch videos. That's like how I consume content. I prefer videos. I like music on audio. I actually like music videos still. I am the MTV generation. I still love music videos.

[00:08:11] They don't make very many good ones anymore. But they are they I still do love them. But yeah, I definitely personally consume video more. I do have some podcasts I really like

[00:08:23] listening to. And those I'll listen to obviously on audio, but I like Joe Rogan. I enjoy Joe Rogan. And I'll sit there for two, three hours and watch the video. I don't know if I've ever listened to a whole one in one sitting with Rogan. Definitely

[00:08:42] listen. Like even today I was scrolling through like the guests, like, you know, depending on I like, I like, well, I like the conspiracy people, but I also like when he just has his comedian friends on, I'm big on like the comedy podcast just because like,

[00:08:55] it's just nice to take a break and like turn my brain off and listen to something funny. But okay, yeah, so yeah, so do you think like people should be creating podcasts specifically with video in mind? Or should they record the video and verbatim like

[00:09:16] restrict the audio and release that? Do you think they should be like two different types of content depends on what your it depends on what like your vertical is and how you're presenting that content, right? So like some content makes sense on both. I like that.

[00:09:29] That's always like your thing. It's like, well, why are you doing that? And what do you hope to achieve? I was looking for a magic bullet like one way I can do everything, but it's not

[00:09:37] it doesn't not really applicable. So I think you just need to understand like the kind of content and if it doesn't make sense for audio only, then you know, obviously produce different

[00:09:45] audio for that or find a different way to put it together so that it makes sense for audio like creative editing or whatever it happens to be. But you know, to your question of like,

[00:09:54] should you be thinking video first or audio first? I think it boils down to the question we asked before. Why are you making this and what do you hope to achieve from it? So if

[00:10:02] ultimately you want to get sponsors and advertisers and you want to make a whole bunch of money that way. Yeah, go ahead get video and audio do video and audio do social media as well. Get a freaking newsletter do that and you know, go sell sponsors on

[00:10:16] impressions not, you know, overall across all channels. We have all this, you know, the right audience for you on our social channel which is highly engaged in our Facebook group which is highly engaged and our newsletter which has 17,000 people with a 60% open rate

[00:10:33] and the 3.2% click through rate and then we have our podcast which averages 2,172 downloads per episode and our you know, 47% consumption rate or whatever and you know just have that entire package and go sell a sponsorship. CPM advertising or monetization is for the

[00:10:54] greater part complete crap. Loading up your podcast with like 17 ads or 8 ads or whatever might sound like a great idea. I know there are studies that say that you know, you know consumers don't mind listening ads. I'm sorry every fucking consumer does not want

[00:11:09] to listen to ads. There's a single consumer that's like, yeah, I can't wait to hear the fucking ads in this podcast. So if you're able to do this with a sponsorship and you know,

[00:11:18] not CPM like DAI advertising or if you're, you know, stick to host red ads because it's it's a little bit more real if you're going to go that direction and sponsorship is fantastic over like CPM type stuff that you'd be doing otherwise because it crosses all the channels

[00:11:37] and you get to really control how that stuff is presented. And you make way more money. You make way more money with a sponsorship. Yeah, I think the whole looking at it, Lee said including the newsletter, social, you know, we can get you X numbers across

[00:11:53] these different things in the whole package. I think we've seen more of that. I think just like, you know, the audio host red CPM unless your show is like massive, like you're not going to make that much money unless, you know,

[00:12:08] I have a wake up call. So if you want to make money with your podcast, you have a business now. And I think that's important to put that in your head. If you're ultimately

[00:12:20] want to make money with your podcast, that's why you're building a podcast so you can make money. You want a little bit more financial freedom. You want to have more freedom in your life.

[00:12:26] You want to quit your job, you want to lower your hours at your job, whatever it is. And you just want to focus on podcasting and you want that to be your thing. You want to make

[00:12:33] money in podcasting. Remember that when to make money, you have to think about it like a business now. So, you know, start if you don't know the business side of it, start learning the business side. Like it's not just about producing good content.

[00:12:47] You need to know the number one thing people will tell me when I tell them go out and get sponsorships, right? Is, yeah, I mean, are there companies that do that for you?

[00:12:56] Like no, go frickin' pick up the phone or send an email or go on LinkedIn and find these companies, find the people, reach out to them, tell them what awesome product you have. You have only a

[00:13:04] couple hundred or thousand listeners. No problem. Let them know that they're super engaged. You know, make sure you have some type of conversation with your audience so that you can show that they're actually a real engaged audience and real people and all that

[00:13:18] kind of stuff. But if you're able to show that and you're in a niche, you could still make a ton of money on your podcast with a sponsorship, but you're not going to make it if you're not making

[00:13:25] those calls or sending those emails and having those conversations. You don't need to be a sales professional to do this. You just need to do it. 100%. I think, yeah, you got to reach out,

[00:13:36] find people that are specific to like kind of, yeah, your genre, your niche, what you're doing. And you'd be surprised. Yeah, even if your audience is on the smaller side, people are willing to work with like, if it's a really focused thing,

[00:13:49] and their company is going to resonate with your listeners because it's very specific. Chances are they, I don't know, chances are, but you'd be surprised probably at people responding saying yes. I've even had people like road, I reached out to road to try to sponsor and

[00:14:08] they're like, no, we can't do that, but we'll send you this microphone. And I was like, oh, well that's sick. Yeah, do that. Yeah. Yeah, dude. So you never know, like you'll get stuff or

[00:14:17] some other, I have like an on air sign here. Another company was like, we'll give you a recording light for the door, like a red light so people don't open the door. They know you're live.

[00:14:28] And hell, you might be able to sell a package for a thousand bucks a month, even if you only have a couple hundred downloads per episode because it's so specific. And like you said,

[00:14:37] you got to reach out. And I've noticed too on LinkedIn, I've had success with doing it via LinkedIn rather than email, but I don't do like the whole asshole pitch thing. I make it very casual.

[00:14:50] And a lot of times these companies have someone in their title that's like, it says partnerships for influencers or community partnerships and the partnership people, that's their job to partner with creatives or YouTubers or podcasters, whatever. So

[00:15:07] hit them up. Yeah. And you can actually, like Magellan, I think does this and there's a bunch of other companies out there that do it. But I think Magellan is like probably the biggest

[00:15:18] where they'll show you based on shows in a genre or a specific show. Here's all the advertisers that have advertised on that show. And it's really valuable because these are people that are spending on other podcasts. That said, if you're a smaller podcast looking for sponsorship,

[00:15:33] maybe avoid those and go after someone direct that makes more sense for your show. That might be interested in something a little bit more... The people who are advertising on all the other shows, they have it down to a science with like CPM and all that. They know

[00:15:48] exactly where it needs to back into. But if you approach somebody new, you might have a better chance at a better sponsorship deal. 100%. I wanted to ask you what are your thoughts on,

[00:16:00] and this is just a fun question. I like to get people's point of view on short form video clips, like Instagram, TikTok for podcast growth. In my opinion, that doesn't really drive downloads. It might drive more awareness. But what are your thoughts on that?

[00:16:18] I think it drives people to watch your podcast if they're consuming a video content. And great example, I didn't know who Theo Vaughn was until I saw all of his shorts. And eventually

[00:16:30] I'm like, oh, follow this guy. This guy's funny. This guy's hilarious. Matt Reif and a whole bunch of other people, like Sam Morrell, I think his name is. Sam Morrell, yep. I didn't know. Yeah,

[00:16:40] I know. Any of these people were until I saw their shorts. And then eventually enough shorts in, I'm like, this guy's funny. It's not just like a one-off. And then I went and searched

[00:16:50] for this person and ended up now whenever they have new stuff. And they're part of my algorithm now too, which is great. But my point being I've never once gone to a podcast app looking

[00:17:00] for them. Never. I saw them in video form in a short and I went to go watch them in video form. And now this is me, I'm sure like Edison Research or other research companies out there

[00:17:14] are doing a deeper dive on the greater population and can tell you a little bit more about behavior on that front. But from a logic perspective and from just a personal experience,

[00:17:24] that's how I consume content and like how I discover new content. Yeah, no, I'm the same way like I might see them. And yeah, if I see it enough, maybe I'll go follow them or I'll go

[00:17:35] watch them on YouTube. But maybe I've once or twice was like, okay, I'm gonna listen to their podcast. So then, but it's a big journey for the listener because it's like you got to close

[00:17:46] Instagram, then you got to open Spotify or Apple, you got to try to remember what their spelling is or their name of their podcast, type that in, then find an episode. It's such

[00:17:57] like a long journey. That's why it's just kind of when people talk about like using video clips to grow your podcast, it's like it might grow your Instagram or your TikTok, but I don't know

[00:18:08] that it's gonna those people are going to become podcast followers. The caveat to that I would imagine is that just like in sales, sales is like seven to 10 touch points equals a sales

[00:18:21] conversation. So it takes you seven to 10 times to be in front, whether you're sending a message on LinkedIn or you're sending an email or you see them at a conference or whatever it is,

[00:18:31] the school of thought is it takes seven to 10 touch points of any kind to ultimately have that first sales conversation. Similarly, I imagine if your budgets are big enough, like if you're a small and dependent podcaster, it makes no sense. But if your budgets are big

[00:18:46] enough, you're able to get in front of the same person on multiple channels. And it's a, you know, some of them, it's just a branding exercise. It's not necessarily tying directly

[00:18:56] back to a direct listen or a direct follower or whatever. I think there could be value in that, but only with larger budgets. I think the amount of time it would take to produce a lot of

[00:19:10] this stuff and put it out there. If you're able to automate, I think like headliner and a bunch of others do stuff like that. I mean, I think everybody's doing that type of stuff now. And

[00:19:17] if it's like seamless, like I think a couple of the hosting platforms like Buzzsprout, etc., if I'm not mistaken, it could be wrong. Buzzsprout does have a built-in thing. Yep. Exactly. So if it's seamless and built into the platform, I mean, why not use it? I mean,

[00:19:32] it's not going to hurt you, right? Just get your content out there. Great. It might not convert, but it's generating impressions and awareness. Exactly. It's out there. So yeah, no, I agree. I think it's kind of the same thing. There's just so much pressure to put all these

[00:19:49] fucking video clips. It's like, all right, guys, like, I guess I got to put some video clips out, but it's just like, it's just, it's just funny how that works. But well, the video clips

[00:20:03] themselves, are you tying them back to your videos or are you tying them back to your audio or you're not tying them back to anything? Honestly, I don't really have a great social

[00:20:11] media strategy. I just kind of pull clips to throw them up there to kind of stay relevant and see, you know, what I have like 3000 followers on Instagram. But honestly, like you said,

[00:20:23] I don't know why I'm doing it or what I hope to get. I just kind of throw stuff up and see what sticks. But I mean, ultimately, I probably should have a better strategy. But don't be

[00:20:34] afraid to ask for what you want. So like, when you get to that point, like find a classy way of including it in your shorts and just tell people what you want right in the short without like

[00:20:42] shoving it in their face. But if they don't know what you want, if they like what you're doing, and they're like, all right, well, I'll support this guy. If there's no call to action there,

[00:20:50] if there's nothing telling them, this is what you actually want, they're not going to do it, they're just going to scroll on. But if there's something there, they like what they see,

[00:20:58] they might be like, oh, yeah, I'll support them. Yeah. And you know, and you can in stories link to stuff. So I guess I could, I'd probably do to start like linking once in a while to something

[00:21:08] with like, like you said, a casual would love for you to check this out guys, if you've been enjoying the clips or whatever it may be, always be testing just in those YouTube thumbnails, AB, I got to start testing with the emails too, like the email marketing.

[00:21:26] I know that's a big thing. I don't do that. I send newsletters, but I need to testing. Yeah. It seems like everyone's talking about testing. I guess, I guess that's how you hone in on what

[00:21:37] works, right? I mean, you never stop. Like it's, you know, ABCD, EFG test always and what works today doesn't necessarily work next week. So understanding that is really important. I mean, the program, even programmatic strategies from Opad Boost or,

[00:21:52] you know, anything else that we're running, they're not the same month over month, you know, or sometimes even week over week or campaign over campaign for the same show because it might

[00:22:03] be shifting. As we get into football season, you know, a show about football is going to be, the strategy is going to be very different in the draft than in, you know, in the season

[00:22:16] or, you know, leading to the Super Bowl is going to be very different, you know? So it's just things to think about. I love how you said that season is coming. Go ahead, go ahead.

[00:22:24] Oh yeah, yeah, I got my fantasy league, man. I got to win. The draft is coming up. I got to do it. I got to win this time. I won second place last time. It was my first time playing ever and

[00:22:35] this is the second. I'm pretty excited. We'll see. I'm eighth out of 10 picks, so we'll see. Oh, you guys are drafting early. I'm in a league that, oh, shit, it's probably been like

[00:22:46] six or seven years, but we dropped usually like kind of close to the start of the season, like late August. I've won before. I've won twice actually, but then it seems like if I don't win

[00:22:57] or come in like second or something, then it's like I'm like last. It's like there's no middle ground. Yeah, just like deflate you completely in this season. You're like, I don't care anymore.

[00:23:09] Yeah. But last question before we go, Mike, and this is kind of a fun one, but I guess because I'm a little bit tired of people without kids because I just had my second daughter,

[00:23:27] girl dad, a two-year-old and just over a one month year old. But how do you manage having a kid running a business, doing entrepreneurial stuff, running a podcast? Because I'm kind of sick of all these like this hustle. I'm not taking advice anymore from people that

[00:23:45] don't have kids, I think when it comes to like hustling and like entrepreneurship and if they don't have kids, it's like if you don't have kids, you have all the time in the world, you could, and especially if you're not married or something too, you could dedicate your

[00:23:58] entire life to whatever your business or your goal is. But so piggybacking on that, what is your advice and what do you think of that? So this is personal opinion, obviously everyone has their own lives and they run their own

[00:24:11] lives however they want. So I'm not telling anyone how to run their life. But personally, my kids and family come first always, no matter what. I bring my kids to school in the

[00:24:20] morning and I pick them up. My wife does sometimes too, but I like to be there and I still walk my daughter 11 years old to at least where she walks to school, like I kind of walk her out and we talk on the way there. They're sporting events,

[00:24:33] like my son does soccer, my daughter does swimming and dodgeball and they both do gymnastics and I'm there watching every single time without fail. It's to me being part of their lives is

[00:24:47] more important than any amount of money you could possibly give me or any deal that we could possibly close. So I make time to do those things. And then outside of that,

[00:24:56] yeah, I have my time that I work. Everyone in my family knows this is when daddy is focused on just work. I actually have a home office where I'm talking to you now and I have an office

[00:25:08] in a co-working space near here. Our entire company's remote, we have 15 employees and they're ever, we've been remote since before it was cool. So there's no central office or anything like that, which is like I think an advantage if you have to go into

[00:25:21] an office it's changes what your schedule looks like a little bit because you have, you know, set hours in an office. But yeah, as far as getting everything done, it just comes down to priorities and making sure that if you're not organized, you have someone

[00:25:37] that you're working with that helps you stay organized. Organization is everything, everything. Just understanding that here are the things that need to get done. Here's what's most important and just checking those boxes off. It can be really easy as a, especially as a

[00:25:53] solo founder, like when you're early on and there's trust you and there's nobody else or even if you have a couple like employees maybe early on you have like people overseas and you know just

[00:26:05] VAs and stuff like that, which is a really common thing nowadays. I never went that route but it's really common and it can get really lonely and it could be really difficult to stay

[00:26:16] motivated when things aren't going the way you're hoping. And my advice to that is go out and talk to people whenever I'm feeling like completely deflated or like I just, you know, oh my god,

[00:26:30] all this stuff where do I even start or like well what should I do? Or like is it worth it? You know or whatever right? When you have those thoughts and you always do every founder does

[00:26:41] Alex Lieberman just talked about it from morning brew out you know and they exit for $75 million but you know he was just talking about how he felt like a whole imposter syndrome thing

[00:26:50] and it's a very normal thing. I would say just talk to people like I have a previous partner that I call all the time. I'm lucky enough to have a great co-founder in our CRO

[00:27:05] Chase, I literally call him all the time with ideas, you know thoughts like feelings whatever it happens to be and I have other people that up until this point we just back and forth will

[00:27:17] either be texting or you know quick phone calls and it's just like here's where I'm at, here's where I'm thinking and you just get perspective they don't have to know shit about your business, they don't have to know it. Just talk through everything. If you just sit around

[00:27:31] and stay inside your own head you'll never get anything done. I love that and when you're talking about your kids like yeah that's what I aspire to be. Be super involved, drop them off at

[00:27:42] all their stuff, watch all the games so my oldest daughter's too and so I'm still getting there. It's still kind of adjusting to it and realizing that like oh my time is like their time and I got

[00:27:57] to be careful how I divide things and if it's getting late it's probably better to just stop working and go be with the family, put the kids to bed but it's been a little bit of a challenge

[00:28:07] adjustment at least but yeah that's definitely a goal. Love that. I love what you said about talking to people because I feel like during cove well everyone got kind of fucked up during

[00:28:18] COVID but yeah like but you're right it just feels better to talk to them to either an event to ask for advice or even just to talk about like regular like friend stuff you know it's

[00:28:28] just good it kind of gets you out of your own head and I agree I think that as solo founders whatever the work from home culture it's good to whether it is still like remote or a phone call

[00:28:44] or to like get out it's super important. And for anyone that is not that feels like they're not good at talking to people and you know they don't know how to approach that like well what do

[00:28:53] we talk about you know like just remember this that every person you talk to loves talking about themself everyone loves talking about themself so don't make that conversation about you make it

[00:29:04] about them and then your stuff will come out of it and it works every time. Yeah no 100% I do that with my wife's friends, husbands sometimes I'm like oh just start talking about like what they're getting into. I'm not interested in my wife's friends, husbands ever.

[00:29:23] They think it's going to be like this perfect thing because you know their wives are friends and I'm like hey bud. It depends, it depends you know you'll bond with some of them more than others but

[00:29:34] dude so one last thing came to me I was gonna wrap this up but what is the podcasting world what's the scene like in Japan like are they straight up in Japanese like the podcast are they

[00:29:47] in English like what's it like over there is there even like a podcast world? Yeah yeah there's quite a big scene the problem with Asia right now and podcasting is not a lack of listenership

[00:30:00] and not a lack of podcasts and to your question I mean there's a bunch in English most of them are in Japanese but in Japan specifically and there's companies like Otonal and others that are like

[00:30:10] kind of driving the space right now over here in audio but in Asia specifically is what we're trying to expand out here the biggest problem is there is no monetization or very little monetization so advertisers in these regions aren't spending on audio advertising it's just

[00:30:29] not a thing it's not like they're not commonly doing that they're doing like the line advertising or WeChat advertising or they're doing display or digital display or you know like out of home you know or whatever they're doing everything other than audio advertising so it's not like a

[00:30:47] it's not like a normal thing here I think it's definitely a growing market and we're starting to see more of that come out so that's why we're exploring it but I think that's the biggest

[00:31:03] challenge of like you're a podcaster in one of these regions you're I guarantee you you're feeling that pain like look I have all these listeners why can't I make money that's why you go after those sponsorships don't go after the traditional model go after direct sponsorships but again

[00:31:20] well I guess not again for the first time in Asia I have no idea how all that works on the advertising front I've never reached out to a Japanese company to go get a sponsorship so I

[00:31:32] have no experience with that in any way shape or form I do have friends at Otonal and I'm hoping to learn a lot more about it you know I've only been here for two years and I plan on knowing as much

[00:31:42] as I can you know in the next couple dude that's interesting um yeah I don't know anything about that but uh I'm sure eventually you know those pieces will start to fit together hopefully people make some money advertising things getting more and more popular and hopefully

[00:31:59] Mopad get roots in Japan that'd be sick um well dude speaking of family I better get back to them it's getting a little bit late over here but uh tell the good people where they could find you

[00:32:10] plug away your channels what you want to plug and uh yeah I'll only I'll only plug Mopad boost so it's boost.mopodmwpod.com try it see if you like it tell me share your feedback with me

[00:32:27] or you know anyone on our team just you know there's an email on there and ultimately if you have questions about the space or questions about your podcast or just want to

[00:32:36] wrap you heard I love talking so don't hesitate to reach out you don't have to spend any money with me to to chat and we're more than happy to help you on your podcasting journey that's it sweet man well uh Mike thank you for coming on the show

[00:32:52] yeah thank you on podcast even even