Hookergate Co-Creator Guy Kelly on Winning iHeartRadio's Podcast Competition and Creating a True Crime Hi + Tips For Designing Podcast Cover Art: Part 2

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, on the face thing, as long as I can remember everyone's always told me faces are really important

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think it's as important as people think it is. It's like the cover design 101

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, that is a good basic rule to learn when you're first learning how to do things

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot more complex stuff that you can do psychologically and lots of different ways of going about illustrating or communicating something that doesn't involve having a face on it

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_01]: What about potty people and welcome back to Clipped as always I'm Eric your host and Clipped brings you the tips, resources and people to help you crush your content goals

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of people, I've got Guy Kelly back on the show today. This is part two of our interview about Hookergate and his career in graphic design

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's really what this episode is about. If you want to hear the full interview in the whole story of Hookergate and how guy won the iHeartRadio

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The next great podcast competition check that out. It goes all through his production and how him and his co-founder started the show

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And their whole process of the contest and the production and the story. It's a rad story by the way

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But in this episode we're focusing on guys career as a graphic designer and specifically we get into the ins and outs of podcast cover art

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Things he recommends things he doesn't recommend different schools of thought about how to create the best cover art and some of the stuff he likes out there and doesn't like and

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Was great food for that for me and some insights and gonna take those to heart because I'm thinking about changing my cover art again. Not happy with it

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But in any case before we get into it just letting you know this podcast sponsor by River side head on over to River side dot FM take advantage of their AI show notes

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: AI descriptions their AI clips shareables for social media that's River side dot FM enter the name of this show clip CLIP

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: ED for 20% off and here's part two of guy Kelly creator of Hookergate and graphic designer

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's chat about the cover art. Okay, because it's my understanding that you design the cover art and it's also my understanding that

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You do graphic design for a living so tell us about all all of that stuff. I went to college for graphic design and the main reason I did that was because making music as or making a living as a musician

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Just was impossible it just wasn't gonna happen you had to go to college to find out which are actually gonna make money doing

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I chose graphic design because it seemed like a cool thing honestly. I wanted to get into making like record covers which I've never done other than for like my own albums

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I pretty early on got into the publishing industry doing books and magazines, which I really really enjoyed. I really like making physical projects products rather than websites or apps or things like that

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did that for a really long time and I still do that to some extent that was a

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Very useful in this whole process honestly like part of the pitch process. We had to do a thumbnail and a

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Designed PDF pitch deck thing and so I knew how to design that put that together make it look fancy

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We had to do the cover art and everything so I designed that. I didn't take the photo, but I did the design for the cover. So it just kind of helped us be a

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Mean production team because whatever we needed to do we knew how to do it you had all the resources

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah from like start to finish. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, I mean dude. There's so many people that wanted to do a podcast let alone

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Do it through crime podcasts and it's just interesting that yeah, you guys had all the skill sets

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But one just go back to the design. I found that you know a lot of the projects I worked on were really complex books or magazines

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, hundred plus pages lots and lots of photos and side bars and everything

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I found that the part of my brain that

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Perfected working on these complex projects and bringing all the pieces together

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I was using that same sort of skill set in putting together the podcast. You know, I've got the interview and the voiceover and the music and the sound effects

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've got to gather it all in and turn it into it one piece. It really felt mentally very very similar to making a magazine or a book

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if the actual

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Process and software involved was different. I can imagine it seems like yeah, it's kind of similar. It's just a different four different like format for a different group of people

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: To have you thought about doing

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Other if like the opportunity was presented would you be interested in doing cover art for podcasts? I would be

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we chatted about this offline a little bit. I mean, I would be I haven't thought about like offering that as a service

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe that's good idea. I haven't really worked much with any other podcasters or doing anything else for anyone else

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm interested in doing that and I haven't completely figured out how to market myself or present myself

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes I think you know just being sort of a all in one production

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: One stop shop. You got your music you're editing your sound effects and your graphic design all in one place

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Seems like maybe it's a decent way to angle myself

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude. I mean all start and this doesn't happen a lot but

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's happened to me in through I'm like maybe like five times where like people are looking for cover art

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So don't know if you're interested but if it happens and it's a right fit. I'll definitely recommend you for that

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: For sure, yeah absolutely be something you're interested in depending on what they need and their budget or maybe not

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I you know, I've never been happy with my cover art

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to put on the cover. I'm like currently I have my of my face on there and like do I want that on there?

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you put like a tagline on there? Do you put your face on there? Should the title alone convey what the show is about

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Colors that pop versus ones that don't I don't when you see a lot of cover art what's your first are you impressed by a lot of it or is a lot of it?

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a done in Canva it's not good like once you take on like the industry in terms of cover art

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the like you know stuff you see on the charts just sort of the you know larger podcasts are all doing really really good stuff

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You know all of the top true crime shows like

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to ask over art. Yeah, I was surprised we actually did it

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna pivot for just second we did a early version of the thumbnail that we first submitted before we changed our minds and did the one that ended up being out

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But the one that we did the very first version that I did this like seven other true crime podcasts that are on the charts that look almost identical

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a newspaper clipings with a rip through the middle of the title through it's like it's hilarious how many there are like that

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad we didn't do that one and I didn't see any of the others it just you know, we use the newspaper clippings. It's an old story

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everybody's got that idea

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Generally I'm pretty I'm pretty critical of most graphic design out there. I'm pretty critical of most music. Are you okay?

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I would say most of it is pretty bad out there

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and the type of podcast you have

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know depends on what type of art you need just from my experience as a designer and in marketing in general and in podcast

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The thumbnail is so important the title is really important those two things so the thumbnail

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So you would agree that that who would be the difference between like checking the show out and not 100%

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have no doubt that we got a bunch of clicks because of what because of the title and the thumbnail

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they they're both very compelling people want to know what that's about but you know a

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Podcast that's more business oriented or a chat show or something has a different kind of vibe to it

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess it you know it all depends on how you're getting people

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: To your podcast. You know if you have a robust marketing effort and some branding on your social media

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's getting people there. Then maybe it's less important, but if they're finding you through the podcast apps themselves

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the most important thing is the thumbnail and the title of your podcast. Oh, yeah, you're bumping me out

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know I got a fix my I got to I got to I thought about changing the name, but I kind of like the name, but I don't

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Stick for a while you know on the the face thing different schools at thought. Yeah, as long as I can remember everyone's always told me faces are really important

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And there is face on the hooker gate thumbnail so maybe ignore what I'm about to say

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think it's as important as people think it is

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like a little bit of an easy thing to just be like well people feel connection when they see a face on something right and it's like yes

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: There is some of that but it's it's like the you know

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Cover design 101, you know like okay. Yeah, that is a good basic rule to learn when you're first learning how to do things

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot more complex kind of stuff that you can do like psychologically and everything lots of different ways of going about illustrating or communicating

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Something that doesn't involve having a face on it. I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that you've got to do that

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you know I was I've heard that too. I saw it's like oh I guess I got to put my face on it, but you're right unless you're maybe like some beautiful chick and like sex cells

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like of course you're going to put your face on it at that point, but yeah, do I have my mug out there?

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully not you know if you're a celebrity and you're recognizable absolutely do that or just to become a celebrity

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know like that can be a step in you know putting your face on all of your branding, but you know it all depends on what your goals are and

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of podcast and what the podcast goals are to let's wrap this up tell me what you're excited about and what you're working on

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You briefly mentioned it, but maybe if you could just recap that for the audience and where people could find you they want to get in touch

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Right now I'm just still continuing work on season two of hooker gate. I've got a lot of projects in the works right now

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately not a lot to announce, but the easiest way to find me is my website guykelly.com

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Just GUIkely.com

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That's got you know links to various things there. I don't do a lot on Instagram, but you can find me on there

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a link on my website to that as well where I post some of my personal stuff occasionally. That's about it

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming on the show and we will chat soon. Thanks for having me on this been a lot of fun really appreciate it